The NWT will have a new premier in a couple of months’ time. Caroline Cochrane says she’s stepping away from politics.
Listen to our half-hour exit interview right here – or read the transcript below.
We also have our usual round-up of Cabin Radio journalism from the past week, and other articles our newsroom staff have been reading.
Stories to catch up on
Enterprise’s housing plan is halted by the GNWT
A tiny community's plan to replace wildfire-burned homes and give residents financial aid was halted by the GNWT. Hear from the mayor and the minister.
On an icebreaker, scientists study the ‘Last Ice Area’ before it disappears
At the edge of an area projected to be the last stronghold of summer sea ice, researchers are documenting an ecosystem headed for drastic change.
Minister makes fresh attempt to explain Yellowknife’s evacuation
In the legislature and an interview, Shane Thompson sought to clarify exactly what triggered Yellowknife's evacuation after conflicting accounts emerged.
What happens inside a hospital when a city evacuates?
Yellowknife's evacuation caused a series of major events in rapid succession at the city's hospital. Staff walked us through the drama.
Public trust key in review of wildfire response, city councillors say
The City of Yellowknife is planning a third-party review of its response to this year's wildfires. For many councillors, transparency and public trust are key.
YK post office to be more accessible, have more Indigenous elements
The company that owns the post office building in Yellowknife says renovations will improve access, save energy and reflect Indigenous culture and history.
(Editor’s note: It is still extremely strange to me that days earlier, none of this was mentioned by the company concerned when we initially asked where the planters outside the building had gone. It’s also odd that, given the inevitability that removing the planters would cause a lot of residents to have questions, nobody – given this apparently also went through the city’s heritage committee – thought to issue any kind of explanatory notice ahead of time.)
Yellowknife awakens to grossest morning in city history
Even for a city that's seen a lot lately, Saturday morning's deep orange sky was enough to stop residents in their tracks.
Water levels for hydro generation at record low, NTPC says
The NWT Power Corporation has dealt with low water levels at its hydro plants before, but says the current drought is "about as dire a situation as we've seen."
What we’re reading
Paulatuk Porridge set to make splash at world porridge competition
From Emily: I started this week not knowing that porridge competitions were a thing. Thanks to this piece by CKLB, I now know not only that they exist but that NWTer Stephanie Yuill is competing in one in Scotland, with a recipe featuring ingredients foraged in the North.
In Defense of the Rat
From Chloe: In a summer of relentlessly bad news, I found this article arguing that rats are more lovable than we think refreshingly delightful. It starts out with a story about a lawyer who was assigned to defend rats in court in 1522, at a time when people put animals on trial for their crimes against humanity.
The goats fighting fires in Los Angeles
From Megan: California has started using goats to clear bushes and large areas of grass to create large fire breaks and keep communities safe. It’s a very environmentally friendly way of combatting wildfires, and the goats seem to be pretty happy. It also makes for fewer workplace injuries due to heavy machinery.
Exit interview: Premier Caroline Cochrane
Premier Caroline Cochrane is stepping down. After two four-year terms – one as a minister, one as leader – she says she won't seek re-election this fall.
Cochrane's decision is in keeping with territorial tradition. Until Bob McLeod's two terms from 2011 to 2019, no NWT premier had spent more than four years in the role.
The act of remaining premier for more than a term is a difficult one in consensus government, where a fresh set of MLAs chooses the premier in a secret ballot after each election, meaning there is no guarantee of retaining power even if you run again and win.
Cochrane leaves office after four years dominated by what she called "one crisis after another" – the Covid-19 pandemic, floods and wildfires being the most prominent. Privately, senior NWT figures have referred to "four years of hell."
The pandemic, which arrived one month after Cochrane published her government's four-year vision, "did overshadow a lot of things that I was hoping to get done," she told Cabin Radio.
Below, read the full transcript of our exit interview with the premier.
This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.
Ollie Williams: Do you intend to run again in this fall's election?
Caroline Cochrane: I won't be putting my name forward for re-election this term. I'm looking forward to taking some time to myself to reflect and to probably re energize before I decide what my next career option will be.
What were the factors that you took into consideration?
I do think that there comes a time. It's been a long four years. I've been in government for eight years, and the last four years have been one crisis after another. It's always good to have new blood at the table and the other factor is, within a consensus government, we usually have a premier from the south, from the north and from Yellowknife. And so the likelihood of re-electing a premier from Yellowknife would be very, very slim.
You mention one crisis after another. To what extent do you think the pandemic and natural disasters have overshadowed your government's attempts to get things done for the past four years?
Well, yeah, we were just recently elected and a matter of a month or two later, we were hit with the first pandemic I've ever experienced in my life, and most of us throughout the globe. It did overshadow a lot of things that I was hoping to get done in the government. But I am quite proud that even though we had the pandemic – we had floods, we had fires, we had heatwaves, we had anthrax – we still managed to get 77 percent of the mandate actions done. So I'm quite proud of that as well.
Just in case anyone thinks they missed a pandemic along the way, the bison, primarily, are the ones that had the anthrax. Do you see yourself as a premier that basically just dealt with emergencies for four years?
That would be an easy assumption, but I wouldn't say so. The emergencies did take a huge amount of time and energy from all government employees and elected officials, but we did still concentrate on... not only the mandate but the pandemic, the fires, all these situations really highlighted the discrepancy with marginalized populations. When I first ran for politics, that's where my heart was – and it really reinforced it. So it allowed us the time – well, maybe not time, but it allowed the focus to be on marginalized populations. And that was where my heart was.
A lot has happened to marginalized populations over the past four years. Your term is ending with planters disappearing from downtown Yellowknife and people still arguing over things they were arguing about a decade ago. A lot of people, even in marginalized populations, might find it hard to say anything has changed. Do you think it has?
Well, I think one thing that was done in the government was that there was a focus on homelessness. There was additional funding put into homeless shelters, there were increases to income support, special programs for seniors, for people that were disabled. I think the biggest thing – and one of the bigger things that I'm proud of – is that we did a homelessness strategy and we made a commitment to bring that into the executive, which means it's under the purview of the premier, which, in theory, should make sure that homelessness becomes a priority in the next government and for governments to come.
And, presumably, was in your government. It fell under your purview. How do you evaluate progress? What hard data can you point to and say we're on the right track now?
When the homelessness strategy first came across my desk, the biggest gap that I'd seen, coming from the nonprofit sector, was no input from the nonprofit sector. So I immediately put a stop on it, went to the nonprofit agencies that are dealing with shelters, RCMP, other businesses, other people that are impacted by it, and got their opinion, got their input into the strategy. That showed the success, by doing that in the forefront. And that's something that everybody should do. Always ask the people that are impacted by it. They have the answers, they know the issues. So by doing that, taking that step back and making sure their voices were heard, that made it a lot easier to have that passed in the assembly,
And what is it that demonstrates that this is now working and that things are getting better for people?
I don't think you're going to see the change right away, in honesty, Right now we're bringing forward the workers into the Department of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, we're making sure that we have the resources available. Homelessness is not something that's just tackled in one issue. There are myriad different areas that people come from: a lot is mental health, addictions, involvement with the criminal system, family, isolation, a lot of factors come into it. So I think that not only the strategy with homelessness but also the pandemic, the fires, the floods that we've seen, will almost predict that there's going to be a higher focus on mental health coming forward.
Beyond homelessness, what do you think your legacy is as Premier of the Northwest Territories?
Well, there's many things I'm proud of. I am proud, like I said, that we could help shelters out more, that we could increase the rates for income support clientele, that we could develop new programs for seniors, for disabled people. But the area that I think I'm most proud of is the relationships with Indigenous governments. Now, no relationship is always perfect, so there's always–
Well, the Inuvialuit were furious with you over the your government's intervention at a federal level over child legislation, for example. There have been some big concerns, haven't there, with your relations with Indigenous governments?
Absolutely. And ironically, I just met with [Inuvialuit Regional Corporation leader] Duane Smith last week. We're at the point now with – there were misunderstandings. We weren't saying that we didn't want Indigenous people to take over the care of their children. It was: there's a different relationship with the territorial government versus provincial governments, and we needed to make sure that was taken into account. I just met with Duane Smith last week. My understanding: we're meeting in October here, we're almost ready to sign. And so I think that the relationship at one time was tense, and I would say that now, we're back at the table together.
When you say you're almost ready to sign – you're almost ready to sign what?
The agreement for childcare. And there is a term, but it's not at the top of my head right now.
What are the biggest things you didn't accomplish, that you thought you were going to?
I really want to focus on bringing the departments together. I think that's still an issue within the government, is that departments sometimes work in silos. And I don't think that benefits anyone, it doesn't benefit the government or the residents of the NWT. But the reality is we were so focused on crises that that was one piece I didn't get to accomplish.
But I do want to go back to the Indigenous relationships. When I was a cabinet minister, we always had the Intergovernmental Council of the groups that signed on to devolution. But not every Indigenous government was part of that. So I heard right through when I was a minister that people wanted to have more input in the programs and services of the GNWT. So I formed the Council of Leaders table, which includes all Indigenous governments, and that work is about looking at programs and services. That also led into the United Nations Declaration Act that hopefully will get passed in this sitting coming up, and the work that will be done to develop a work plan will be done at that table. The other thing I did that I think is really key is that people always said: "We don't know what the negotiating mandate is for self-government land claim agreements." So I challenged the department and said, "Why don't we make it public?" And after many meetings and discussions we did, we put it public. And ironically, we didn't get the backlash that people thought. It said: This is what our mandate is, when it comes to negotiating.
The other thing we did is we took off the core principles and objectives. That was a big stumbling block in self-government. They were telling us – in honesty, truthfully – that our expectations of self-governments taking care of themselves was higher than we as GNWT could do. I agree with that. So we threw them out the window. And I think that by taking off the core principles and objectives, making people have higher standards than we can attain, and publishing our mandate for negotiations, is going to help in the long run to settling all self-government and land claims negotiations going forward.
A lot of what we're talking about there is the framework that underpins the way that relations between governments work. Then we get to the part where that is actually tested in practice. And in practice, when Yellowknife evacuated last month, the Tłı̨chǫ Government said, "Nobody told us that was happening. Nobody gave us any heads up, we could have helped. Now we're having to play catch-up to even find many of our own people and try to help them." How do you make that shift from fixing a framework to making that relationship work seamlessly in practice?
I think it's important to take ownership when you do things that are not correct. So when the Tłı̨chǫ came out and said, "We weren't part of it, and we should have been" – absolutely they should have been. So we called a Council of Leaders meeting. I sat there for a couple hours and took flak from a lot of leaders–
Do you think that was fair?
Absolutely fair criticism. I listened, I accepted their points. I stood up where I felt that it was wrong. And when we left, we all shook hands. The thing that is still difficult with that, though, is I only found out at noon on Wednesday [August 16] that that was going to happen. And I had to warn the chiefs, Chief Sangris and Chief Sangris, because they are the Indigenous governments in Yellowknife. Then I had to call a cabinet meeting to make sure that cabinet was aware. And then I had to call the MLAs to make sure that the MLAs were aware. So I don't know where I would have found the time, in honesty, in that few hours, to be able to have the cooperation that they requested.
Does it need to be you? You've got 5,500 staff, premier.
It doesn't need to be me. However, the point is that I am the Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, so it's appropriate that the minister speak to Indigenous governments.
Let's look at a different topic. Why was the legislature in your four years so ill-tempered? It was childish at times, it was embarrassing to watch sometimes. Why do you think that was?
I think there was a huge changeover in members in the assembly. I think when I look back at this assembly, and I look at previous assemblies, I've seen that behaviour many times with different MLAs. I do believe that there needs to be better orientation for MLAs. I believe there needs to be better training for both MLAs and ministers. I think it's something that we've neglected, we've crammed it down – they call it a sausage-maker, they try to cram everything into a couple of weeks. And you can't retain that information, long-standing. So we're trying to make sure that this coming assembly – we're working on the transition binder – it was one of my directions to make sure that people understand their roles and responsibilities. So you'll see some changes in the orientation coming up for the new members.
What is that orientation going to look like? Please don't yell at each other openly? Please don't be unkind? How do you orient someone to be productive as a politician?
People have to realize that politicians are just people and relationships are really important. I think what the problem is, is that people watch – and when I go to Ottawa and watch on the hill, the amount of yelling and screaming is actually quite scary. And I think people have this perception that that's how politics needs to be. I would like to counter that and say that should not be what politics is about. I think we've seen huge changes in MLAs being elected in the last couple of assemblies because people don't want to see that behaviour in the House. People want to see politicians working together. And in theory, that's what consensus governments should be. So we need to do a better job of explaining the difference between federal politics and consensus government in the NWT and the roles and responsibilities.
And you sound, there, as though you are absolutely certain that consensus government is still the best option.
I believe in the Northwest Territories it is the best option.
Let's get into some of this transition binder, then. Let's look to our future. All the same longer-term concerns from four years ago, economically, are still there. We talk about diamond mines closing, for example, it's still a thing – it's just four years closer. There are years of economic damage from floods, fires, the pandemic – somehow we have to recover from that. The NWT is entering this election in quite an economically desperate moment, isn't it?
Yes, the economy has taken a hit with Covid, with the fires, with the floods, with communities being evacuated. Definitely, there's been a hit to the economy. However, in this government, again, we did the procurement review, which was something that people have talked about – complained about – for decades. So we took the chance. It was a scary topic, it took a lot of work. But you will be seeing a report coming out fairly soon that talks about how we can support the businesses in the North better. We also did the regulations for the Mineral Resources Act, which was done in concert with Indigenous governments, the first of its kind. We have critical minerals. The market wants the critical minerals. We have the technology, we have the global interest in critical minerals. I think the future will be positive in the economy.
I listen to those and, OK, the procurement review – yes, there were certainly things to be fixed there, but that ultimately is just a limited pot of government money that might be given out in a different way. The critical minerals side of things, we hope that will pan out but at the moment we have one trial mine, in the form of Nechalacho, and we have a few lithium deposits being explored. These things take decades, don't they, premier?
They do take a long time. But there will be infrastructure that's needed for that to come. Although to operate a mine in full operation takes decades, there's exploration, there's work that comes before that, that we've always relied on in the Northwest Territories. And our diamond mines are still alive so hopefully, we can expand the life of the diamond mines, make sure that critical minerals takes off, and work from there. I know that people want to diversify the economy, I would love to diversify the economy. When we first came, tourism was our hot shot, we were thinking that was where we were going to go. And then Covid and everything changed that. So I think in the Northwest Territories, we're still very reliant on minerals. And I think that the world, like I said, is open to that. We need to make sure that we're ready to jump on that.
So to be clear, for an incoming territorial government, minerals need to be number one?
My personal opinion is that critical minerals – or sorry, resource minerals have been the livelihood of the Northwest Territories for decades. We have opportunities coming. So I don't know if it needs to be number one. What I do say is it should not be forgotten. It's what has sustained the North for many, many decades.
Who are the right politicians to start solving some of these problems? We're about to send people off and get them to vote in 19 districts. How should they choose? What qualities do our next politicians need to have?
You know, I don't think that's fair to even, to label people. I found that when I first started, people thought that you needed to be – and I thought that as a resident – I thought that you need to be well-educated, preferably be male, have contacts, be out there and socializing with the higher echelon to society. I came from the total opposite. And so what it taught me, and when I've been there eight years, it's taught me that you can't have one model of a politician. The beauty of having 19 members is you have 19 different viewpoints, 19 different personalities, 19 different ways of looking at things that have to be considered. And that is the beauty of consensus government.
But one of the problems is that when it comes to electing somebody, there are no party slates to look at. You can't really pick, "Oh, these guys, if we elect them, collectively they're going to do this." We don't have that. The best we can do is ask everybody individually: "What do you ideally wish would happen? And how would you, in your own way as one person, contribute toward that?" And I suppose what I'm asking you is how do we select that person? What do we look for? Because there have to be some qualities that you think the ideal MLA brings to the table, no matter which one it is.
I think you have to look inside yourself as a resident and ask what you think is important for politicians. Who do you want? What traits do you want them to represent you for? For me, personally, when people come knocking on my door, I'm going to be looking for honesty, integrity, and the ability to be able to stand up for what you believe in. Do the best you can with the knowledge you have until you know better. When you know better, do better. So the ability to also be flexible, and knowledge of the topics also helps too.
And then we get to the stage where those 19 MLAs get elected and they're going to have to choose a premier – and a premier needs, I'm sure you would agree with me on this, some extra qualities on top, because they've got a whole lot of people they need to negotiate with, and a lot of things they need to navigate. You've done the job for four years. What does the next premier need to have?
The next premier needs to be willing to learn. I always say that there's no sense living if you can't be willing to look at areas that you want to build on, areas you want to improve on. When I first came, I came in from the social sector, the nonprofit sector. I had a chip on my shoulder – a big chip on my shoulder – and I had some anger issues as well. And so I had to learn, myself, to deal with my own issues and listen to people, not just what they're saying, but really hear where it comes from, and then make decisions based off of that.
The whole role of a premier is not to be, in my opinion, the head honcho that says it shall be my way. The role of a premier should be about listening to as many voices as you can and finding a solution that works for as many as possible. I've taken that to heart. I work as a team within my departments. Very seldom do I say, "Thou shalt do this." It's often: "What do you think?" And I'll ask three or four people, for tough decisions, and then when a decision has to be made, then I try to work with the team to find a compromise that will suit for all. And I think that's the trait of a premier that needs to be brought forward.
What did you find hardest as premier? Was it delivering bad news to large groups of people? Was it standing in a room with Justin Trudeau? Was it standing in a room with Danielle Smith? Was it being left alone with your thoughts? What was the most difficult thing?
The most difficult thing as a premier for me personally – because of my background, who I am, a social worker, a mother, a grandmother, a northerner – was to be able to realize that you can't solve all the problems in one term. To be able to be willing to chip away at the issues. And that's difficult, because most of us – when we have an issue – we want it solved right away. I'm very solution-focused. But being able to realize that change takes time.
Point me toward some of the things that you did not solve in your term that need to be at the top of the list for your successor.
I think it's important to build the relationships, maintain the relationships with Indigenous governments as the premier, because that would be the premier's portfolio. And recognizing, like I said, relationships – one day you're not getting along, but work towards it, don't leave the table. Being willing to talk and talk until you find a solution that works for all. And don't discount the federal government. Relationships go all over the place, so if you come in with an angry spirit, very defensive mode of presenting yourself, very angry, you're not going to get very far in that relationship. The key, if I was give advice to a premier, is look at the priorities of the federal government. I give that to NGOs now, because I didn't know that before. And now I talk to NGOs and I tell them: look at the priorities of the government, the territorial government, and then make your ask around that. I think the key federally is the same. Look at the needs of the territory, look at the priorities of the federal government and make your ask around that so it's a win-win. Nobody wants to be a loser. And nobody wants to say no. So if I can make you as a federal politician happy, and make the residents happy, then we both win. And that's a good news story. So be willing to compromise.
Looking at the federal government, let's look at one example of that, which is infrastructure. And the territorial government has now spent years begging for massive infrastructure funding, and nothing transformative has got the full commitment that it really needs to go ahead. You made headlines lately pointing out that there is a huge infrastructure deficit here in the North. But those headlines are already yesterday's news at this point, and there is outwardly very little sign that anything has changed. We are repeating that same message government after government and nothing really seems to happen. Are you doing it wrong? Are they doing it wrong? How do we fix that?
I can't say if anybody's doing it wrong. I think that there is a detriment to the Northwest Territories only having one seat, federally. That puts us at a disadvantage. I think that by bringing to the forefront, because of the fires, the national tension to the North, because of the geopolitical issues that are happening with the sea opening up, I think that the next government has to continue the message to try to get all Canadians to keep talking about the Northwest Territories, the North in general. Only when we have a collective of people that are speaking about it will we get the attention that we need. Ironically, after I did the interview and said I was angry, some people didn't like that I was angry. But I was angry! You know, we'd just been evacuated and I'd watched fires and I'd watch communications fall apart.
You just said to me, don't be angry with the federal government. Don't go in there angry, it might not work. And then you got angry. Did it work?
I said I was angry but I wasn't yelling, screaming and saying they're horrible people. It's OK to express your opinions, to say I'm hurt or I'm angry or I'm sad or I'm happy or whatever it may be. It's how you project that. It did work, actually. The prime minister gave me a call soon after and we met in Edmonton, and there was a commitment to actually put more infrastructure into the North. He's already asked us for our list of asks. We're just compiling that now.
They know the list of asks, premier! They've had the list of asks for years. How can you hold a straight face in that conversation? They know full well, surely, what your list of asks is right now, and I can't see any money coming. What's going on?
Well, like I said, I think we need all Canadians to start speaking for the North. It's easy to ignore marginalized populations. We see that everywhere in our own society, all over the place. Only when people that have the strength speak for marginalized populations will there be change. The focus has been on homelessness. It's not just my work. It's been because the city of Yellowknife – not the city in itself, but the residents of Yellowknife and the communities – have put a big focus on it. So I think, like I say, we need Canadians as a whole to stand up and say we need to take care of the North.
Does it matter to any degree who's delivering the message? And I'm trying to think of the best way to phrase this question. This is not meant at all critically, but we live increasingly in a world where populist leaders bang a drum loudly and corral a lot of people – and you don't have to look very far to find a populist leader or two. I think people would struggle to describe you as a populist leader. Would it help, if the Northwest Territories had a Danielle Smith in charge? Someone who was going to make a lot of noise.
I can't say if it would help or not. What I can say for myself is I deal with communities all the time, and Indigenous governments, and some of them come in hot and heavy and very angry in spirit. And it's a real struggle for me, in honesty, to be able to sit through an hour or two meeting with them and listening to myself getting condemned for the whole thing. And then I have Indigenous governments that come in and are very kind. They put their concerns on the table and they're not yelling and screaming. They try to work with me. I'm not saying that I prefer one or the other. But what I can say is that I look forward to the meetings with the Indigenous governments that come in, speak their issues, look for solutions, and can be kind. I always meet with people, but I kind-of dread the ones where I know I'm going to get yelled at constantly.
We've talked a little bit already about the impact of climate change on your term. You have suffered floods and fires. I don't think there is anybody listening to this who thinks those are going away. If anything, they're likely to become more frequent. Meanwhile, I'm sure you found it a struggle to advance education, to advance health, to advance land claims while those things were going on. Now we're going to have to shovel money at wildfires because it's something we have to do, even to have communities to live in, never mind have education and health and other things in those communities. A lot of people listening to this will say, "Well, we already have a large government." What do we do to have the capacity to cope with an increasing number of severe events, but still effect change in things like health and education? Do we structure our government differently? You mentioned that you wanted to get departments to work more closely together, is there a different approach we could be taking, here? Is it bigger government? Is it smaller government? How do we evolve the way that we govern the territory to be able to move forward and to adapt?
If there was one piece of advice I could give to newcoming MLAs: when you have too many priorities, you have no priority. Everything takes time and effort. And so I never really feel like we get anything done. In this government, we had over 20 priorities. Last government, the same.
The last government had about 230 if you looked at their list.
So I think that they need to really decide. We're going to be in financial problems. There's no doubt about that. We were projecting, I believe, a $175-million surplus and it went down to $5 million because of the wildfires
You'll be lucky to have that by the time the year's out, won't you?
Very lucky to have that by the time the year's out. So there are going to be some fiscal challenges in the next government. They need to decide: what really do they want to do in four years? Do I want to have world peace and have every single priority on the table and not be able to address any of them? Or do I want to have two or three or four priorities? I think they need to look at that and focus on the climate change realities – the adaptation and mitigation that's necessary for them – and also just pick two or three topics and focus on those. I've said that in the last government as well. Once they're addressed, then move on. But you can't have as many priorities and expect them all to be solved.
Pick two or three for me, then.
Homelessness, economy, mental health would be mine.
With hindsight, I can't imagine the job you've done for the past four years is the one you thought you were signing up for in 2019. Did you ever regret becoming the premier?
I don't think I've ever regretted it. What I did – a number of times, actually, with Covid, with the fires, with the floods, when things got really tough – I was sometimes asking: Why me? And then I had to ask myself and answer myself in saying I have some qualities that I think helped me be the premier through these four years of crisis. I'm a middle child, I come from a long family, I'm used to fighting to get at the dinner table. I'm stubborn but I'm very compassionate, because having eight children sharing a bedroom, you can't be all greedy about yourself. So those skills, about being stubborn, about being determined, being compassionate to other people, I think were the traits that actually helped me mentally and physically get through the four years that I've faced.
What do you think those qualities changed? If you'd been a different premier, if there'd been a different person in charge, what do you think might have been different?
That I can't guess that. I can't say what a different premier would have done.
You mentioned at the start of this interview that you need to take some time to think about what you might want to do next. What are your options? What do you think might be on the list?
Well, I've known for many years that I care about people. That's why I came into politics, working with marginalized people. I've expanded that. I more cared about low-income marginalized populations. Now, I think about residents in the North as a whole from what I've experienced and, like you said, being kind-of left behind at a federal table. I'm also a workaholic, I work from early morning till late at night. Sometimes I look like I've been working from early morning till late at night. So I don't see myself sitting in front of a TV, sitting there and watching TV. It's not who I am. So again, I need the time to kind-of reflect, recharge a bit, and then decide what the next challenge will be. But I do like challenges. And so I think I still have things to offer.
Are you done with politics forever?
I can't say if I'm done with politics forever. I won't be putting my name forward in this government but I can't say what will happen next. It depends on what happens. In fact, if the fires weren't where they were, I probably wouldn't be stepping back at this time. So I think it depends on what's happening in society. If there's a need for me there, then I feel obligated that I have to look at that.
If the fires weren't where they were, you wouldn't be stepping back. Unpack that for me a little bit more. What changed?
If people were still evacuated, if people were still scrambled all over, if they were raging in communities where it was still out of control and the time came up, I couldn't have – in consciousness – not put my name forward. So because people were allowed to come home, we've got most of the fires in hold, we're in control of the ones around communities, it allowed me again to think about taking the break that I need.
I mean, we only just delayed the election by a month or so here. If we hadn't delayed the election, we'd be right in the middle of an election period right now. Would you be running if they hadn't delayed it?
You'd see my name forward.
Premier Caroline Cochrane steps away from politics